I saw references to the book of Philippians in Love’s Blog. I selected verses 1 to 10 because they seemed to deal with how you should pray, something I was never good at, at least as far as I could tell.
Philippians 1 verses 1 to 10 (King james version)
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with all the bishops and deacons:
2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and form Lord Jesus Christ.
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy.
5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath began a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both of my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgement;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
My google research indicates this book is a letter by Paul to the Chrsitians of Philippi.
verses 1 to 5 talks about giving thanks to God in every prayer and “always offering prayer with joy.”
With my Christian friends I can see they give thanks to God for all they have. I am not sure that prayer is always offered “in joy”.
My perception is that prayer may often be done to reach out to God for understanding more than to simply express joy in being with him. Joy may be more often the by product of prayer rather than the reason for it.
That was certainly the case with me. I did not feel joy when praying. Joy wasn’t an emotion I had much experience with as a teenager.
I can understand that prayer should be to simply express joy with God, and thankfulness for what he has given us, not asking something of him. Joyful prayer is purely an expression of love of God.
verse 6 – Paul is confident that God “who began a good work in you” will perfect it.
All that is being asked is to love God. All that is needed is to trust God. It isn’t necessary that you understand his guidance only that you show your love of him in following it.
verses 7 &8 – Even though Paul has been imprisoned he holds his jailers in his heart. “You all are partakers of grace with me.” “As God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affections of Christ Jesus.”
I think a good test of your faith in God is can you love your jailers. To me Paul is saying that if you can, than in time your jailers will find love in their hearts for you.
verses 9& 10 – Paul prays that “your love may abound” “in real knowledge and discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless.”
The dictionary says discernment means – “the quality of being able to grasp and comprehend what is obscure.”
Some knowledgeable Christian will have to explain to me what discernment means in this context. I am also not clear on what blameless means in “in order to be sincere and blameless.”
EDIT – I see that when I prepared my post I got my bible versions mixed up. My question about the meaning of “blameless” and “discernment” comes from the New International version:
“9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,”
The World Through My Eyes 
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April 16, 2009 at 1:28 am
lovewillbringustogether
Thanks to ‘Lazarus’, who has not yet chosen to write her own blog, for the Philippian reference that led me to publish it as my second ‘creed’ 🙂
She is very wise and i’m happy that her wisdom has spread out even a little way from my blog. 🙂
As for prayer ALWAYS being offered with Joy.. this is as far as i can tell the ONLY verse in the Bible that says Prayer is to offered joyously – and is a personal statement of Paul more than a command to others.
In a ‘perfect’ world our communication with God would only ever be a joyous one and if we can speak with Him ( Pray) in a joyful heart it would indeed be good for us.. God understands however that this is not always possible for a human soul.
Hebrews 5:5-9 says: 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Jesus Himself offered prayer with strong crying and tears and was heard by reason of the Fear of The Lord. If this fear can be taken as reverence and was done wih a joyful heart while at the same time there was strong crying and tears is a difficult thing to master for us less than perfect humans.
If we can be joyful when we pray we should always do so, but if we need help because of sorrow and suffering He is Merciful enough to forgive and hear our prayer… providing we strongly believe in and love Him. He is able to turn away from those who also turn from Him.
8 Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer. Lam 3:8
and in the same chap: 31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
My KJV has the complimentary word ‘sense’ for judgement.
Paul is saying he hopes they continue to grow in love and that love continue to be increased in them through wise knowings and their ‘common’ sense – to not become corrupted as many churches claiming to show ‘His’ love had around this time being factional and divided against one another – including against Paul Himself.
Again for blameless, my version has the compliment: ‘without offence’ so here he seems to be saying it is important to stay true to loving by God and not be guilty of the sin of offending Him through growing full more of themselves and self-love than the True Love of God.
That’s the way it seems to me – i could be wrong? 😉
Great Thoughts Ed 🙂
<B
April 16, 2009 at 12:27 pm
edfromct
Great thoughts, as always, Love. I will get back to you later. I want to give your comment the same degree of thoughtfulness as you put in to it.
I do see what you saying:
“if we need help because of sorrow and suffering He is Merciful enough to forgive and hear our prayer… providing we strongly believe in and love Him”
If you have faith and trust in God he is merciful and will hear your prayer.
April 16, 2009 at 6:11 pm
edfromct
“Paul is saying he hopes they continue to grow in love and that love continue to be increased in them through wise knowings and their ‘common’ sense -”
The key phrase may be “wise knowings”. Learning how to “discern” the difference between true love of God himself not just the superfical feeling for the idea of God.
You should express your love of God in how you lead your life. Which needs to include learning how to love thoses people who consider you their enemy, as Paul did.
People will have differences in their interpration of what some parts of the Gospel mean. Any discussion of these differences, exchange of ideas, needs to be done in an atmosphere of love.
April 16, 2009 at 8:53 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Agree completely – especially that it is important for us to be able to tell the difference between a True love of and faith in Him and merely our own desires to do so – the ‘superficial feelings’. Our feelings have to be deep right to the ‘core’ (heart) and even beyond…? into the spiritual, maybe? 🙂
<B
April 16, 2009 at 1:32 am
lovewillbringustogether
By the Way… i quoted lamentations above, it is also the place from which we get….’22 It is of the LORD’S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. ‘
His Mercies are New each Morning!
<B
April 16, 2009 at 12:32 pm
edfromct
“His mercies are new each moring”.
I like that thought. Each day is a new beginning.
I good way to start each morning, to renew your faithfulness to God, is with a joyful prayer to him.
April 16, 2009 at 8:41 am
danielle
Ed —
Phil 1:6 is my life verse. I think I probably say each week that I love the verse you picked!
I will come back later with some thoughts on joy, blameless and discernment…right now I get to take care of my girls…and pull out my Greek book again to see what those words were intended to mean from the author!
Just wanted to let you know I’ve read and will come back. 🙂
April 16, 2009 at 12:56 pm
edfromct
Philippians with it’s message of joy, and trust in God, is a great guide to living Danielle.
That Paul is able to keep his jailers(?) in his heart makes him the right role model for a Christ Follower.
I see that when I prepared my post I got my bible versions mixed up. My question about the meaning of “blameless” and “discernment” comes from the New International version:
“9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,”
April 16, 2009 at 9:15 pm
danielle
that’s okay…i don’t use the KJV 😯 (Gasp! Right?!!) I read daily out of the NIV and study out of the New American Standard.
April 17, 2009 at 12:06 am
edfromct
Bible study would be a lot easier if there weren’t so many different version of it. 🙂
Sometimes it is hard to believe that all the different religions are talking about the same God. 🙂
I guess that does keep the Bible industry printing presses going. 🙂
April 17, 2009 at 3:59 am
lovewillbringustogether
Agreed Sir.
Curiously, Laz’s quote of Philipppians 2 at my blog was perhaps responsible for this whole post – As i read it i just cannot understand how there is SO much diversity and division (leading to complete conflict and even war on occasions) in Bible’s and Christianity as a Whole today…
‘2 make full my joy, that ye be of the same mind, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind; 3[doing] nothing through faction or through vainglory, but in lowliness of mind each counting other better than himself; 4 not looking each of you to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others’
The first half of this Chapter is a lesson to be learned well and burned into the Christian Mind until it can do nothing but follow it Truly.
i can only wonder why the various priests, pastors, ministers, vicars, etc etc are able to read this to their congregations and still be convinced of their own Church’s Superiority over the one down the road or across town, or in another country.
This tells (or more accurately TOLD) me that there are few Christians in Churches today and far more ‘false prophets’.
I don’t see many working to bring all together in one Mind, all preferring to hold onto their own versions of ‘Truth’.
That really put me ‘off’ Christianity for the longest of times.
Most recently, the Mormon’s – The Church of Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ – tried their level best to convince me that theirs was the ‘One True Church’ and only they had Christ and His Church ‘just right’ 🙄
They even had a list of 17 points to the ‘true’ Church in the Christian Bible ( not the Book of Mormon!) to back up that claim – sigh.
i tend not to just go along with the ‘crowd’ – it is definitely not in my Nature 😉
<B
April 17, 2009 at 12:51 pm
edfromct
Your comment made me think of Pink Floyd’s “Another Brick In the Wall”.
We are definitely not two bricks in the wall. Although some people have said my mind is “Thick As A Brick” (Jethro Tull). 🙂
When someone is trying to convince me I should change my views, and accept theirs, I stop listening when they stop hearing any I say.
April 17, 2009 at 7:52 am
danielle
Ed,
The history of the Bible is fascinating to me. Believe it or not, all the translations are not all petty. Some of the translations were written long ago. The KJV was written in the 1600s. In the last hundred years, they have found many more manuscripts that date back further, including the Dead Sea Scrolls. This chart below is a great tool to understand how we got the English Bible.
http://www.edburrell.com/origin_and_growth_of_the_english.html
Also, keep in mind that different translations are made for different purposes. The New American Standard was translated literally word for word, which makes it bit choppy to read. But this does make study accurate. Others, like the Living Bible or the Message are not claiming to be translation, but paraphrases and gives a new perspective on a passage. Then versions like the NIV are called “dynamic”, meaning a good balance of “readability” and word for word translation. Here’s a visual of that as well.
Note: other than these charts i am not “endorsing” these websites or their content. i dont’ know….I was just looking for these charts online, they are great tools and we’ve used them before in teaching. How’s that for a disclaimer? 🙂
Another side note, this post encouraged me to study Phil 1:6 even more last night. I had a great study and will probably just post it on my blog in the next few days. Great posts, Ed!
April 17, 2009 at 12:39 pm
edfromct
Danielle I look forward to reading your thoughts on Phil 1:6 in your blog.
Perhaps you might want to avoid mentioning that it was an Atheist who caused you to study this passage. Your readers might think you are being influenced by the devil. I must admit I have acted like a devil on more than one occasion. 🙂
Thanks for the link to the Bible chart. It will be very useful for when I research my next Bibile study.
April 17, 2009 at 4:34 pm
danielle
ed,
you are too funny…if you dont want me to mention you, i wont…but i was going to link back to you. i think its great that you have such a welcoming, open forum to discuss all things here.
April 17, 2009 at 4:37 pm
edfromct
Just kidding Danielle. My little blog could use all the publicity it can get. Feel free to link to my blog anytime.
April 16, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Indian Lake Papa
I usually don’t comment on your bible studies because I can not type long discertations anymore – what I am typing now is a one finger response. I think what you are doing Ed is terrific.
The very strong majority of my praying comes from a joyous heart, not necessarily a happy heart. But my heart usually leads me in my prayer because of my thankfulness of God and His over whelming greatness! it took me several minutes just to type this – after correcting most of my errors!
April 16, 2009 at 5:32 pm
edfromct
Thanks for taking the time to respond Papa. I always enjoy your thoughtful comments.
I am a one finger typer myself. About typing errors, all I can say is thank God for spell check.
I understand what you mean when say you pray in thankfullness to God, but not always with a happy heart.
The circumstances of our lives can make us unhappy. We can still feel great joy in the gift of life.
April 16, 2009 at 9:05 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Agree with what Papa said: what you are doing with this day of Bible Study is a great thing – worthy of Paul Himself and his attitude to those who had distinct differences in thinking to himself and even imprisoned him for those differences.
I’m also very interested in your more scientific and Arts posts. I hope the fact i seem to mostly use biblical references to answer questions in this bible study series does not lead others to think i have no appreciation for the laws of science and of Nature also.
I just have less faith in man’s ideas of ‘perfection’ than i do in His. 😉
<B
April 16, 2009 at 11:59 pm
edfromct
From reading your post Love you have more of a background in the sciences then I do.
You are fascinated by numbers. One place we can see perfection is in a mathematical formula that “works”. The sums must be add up perfectly or the formula won’t work.
I can see perfection in the world around me. The forces of nature must be in balance, or life, as we know it, can’t exist. Life also exist because of change, a plus must be counter balanced by a minus. Even the rate of decay in matter, resulting from the weak nuclear force, decays at a predictable rate.
I don’t believe we will ever have a complete understanding of how the forces in nature interact. It is this unpredictability that makes life fun, makes life an adventure. Of course I will not always enjoy the result. 🙂
It is because I see this “perfection” in nature, even when it appears chaotic, that I have found all the joy and beauty that I need in the world I live in.
I have found the faith I need because what I have found works for me.
We agree on the importance of faith. We also agree that we need to always keep our minds open to any possibility.
The best way to keep our minds open is to exchange ideas with people who may have a different view of the world, and different experiences, than we have.
April 17, 2009 at 12:17 am
lovewillbringustogether
Ed – i believe man’s understanding of mathematics has derived solely from observing the world (Universe) that is all around him and attempting to put sense to it so that we can better ‘predict’ how things may change in an ‘uncertain’ world (and much still today remains uncertain, even though some but not all probablilities are well known).
‘Simple’ arithmetic and algebra has the advantage of always giving accurate ‘expected’ results, providing we make no errors in the calculation – i value that a LOT 🙂
‘The best way to keep our minds open is to exchange ideas with people who may have a different view of the world, and different experiences, than we have.’
So Very True, i can see that Jesus made a strong point of talking and spending time getting to know and be known by those who could have been expected to think differently to Him, and differently to those who claimed to ‘know’ God, in His Day.
I still say there is more of Christ in you than you seem willing to take credit for 😉
Some times the obvious is too obvious for us to see it ‘clearly’.
Some times we believe only what is seen… sometimes our deepest belief lies in what cannot be seen.
<B
April 17, 2009 at 12:29 pm
edfromct
“sometimes our deepest belief lies in what cannot be seen.”
Because of my incomplete understanding of all the forces that act on me, I accept that it is possible there could be something influencing my reaction to a situation that I can’t conceive of.
This way it is important to keep an open mind. Why we need to be prepared to change our beliefs when we examine some new, different, idea. This is way “critical” thinking is so important.
If we are not prepared to accept that what we believe now is wrong, that some different idea could be right, then to me our faith is blind.
April 17, 2009 at 10:04 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Hmmmmm…..?
i can see how for some religious persons there might be little difference between a ‘Blind’ Faith and a closed mind..
but for ME at least i think i have a very large distinction between the two..
i can have ‘blind’ Faith even while at the same time having many unanswered questions that would initially appear even somewhat contradictory to it. My faith would never lead me to absolute 100% certainty that i knew ‘everything’ and was not prepared to consider new ideas – i hope? 😉
Having faith is SOMETHING greater and better than my own consciousness i feel is important – primally so. 🙂
<B
April 19, 2009 at 6:20 pm
edfromct
I agree that we can still have faith in something even when we have unanswered questions about it.
Faith is only “blind” when we stop asking questions about it.
“Having faith in SOMETHING greater and better than my own consciousness i feel is important – primally so”
Hoping that there is something better than your own consciousness is important. It is you faith that allows you to have hope.
I don’t think hope, with out some kind of validation, can sustain faith.
When I say I have faith in something I need to have a high degree of confidence in it. I don’t need confidence in something to have hope for it.
If the only thing that sustains your faith is to hope it is true, I would call that blind faith.
April 20, 2009 at 2:59 am
lovewillbringustogether
Some very interesting thoughts here Ed 🙂
i confess i don’t spend much time considering my faith vs blind faith or Hope… unless a blogger makes a comment or Scriptural quote and i look into them that way.
I am going to consider these as a result of your comments.
Wouldn’t it be a curious thought if an Atheist is responsible for me coming to a better understanding of my Faith in God? 😉
<B
April 20, 2009 at 1:10 pm
edfromct
I have learned a lot about my own faith by reading the blogs of my Christian friends like you.
We do learn more by listening to people who bring us a different perspective than by just spending time with those who think like we do.
The key word of course is to be willing to listen. 🙂
April 20, 2009 at 10:35 pm
lovewillbringustogether
The key word of course is to be willing to listen. 🙂
It is a very sad Truth that many people who claim to love God and believe most strongly in religion do not understand that He is able to talk with them clearly, however He is waiting for our minds to shut up talking and having so much to say so He can be heard as He talks to us.
This is one of the purposes of meditation, but i still find it almost impossible to stop talking then so that i can just sit and listen to Him and the things He is trying to tell me but which i’m too full of ‘myself’ to hear.
Knowing is not the same as doing. 🙄
But at least knowing gives me a ‘chance’ 😉
<B
April 20, 2009 at 11:20 pm
lovewillbringustogether
If the only thing that sustains your faith is to hope it is true, I would call that blind faith.
i understand that perception/view 🙂
If the ONLY thing that sustains a faith is UNSUPPORTED hope then it is indeed fairly able to be called ‘blind’ faith, and indeed such a faith i doubt would be worth very much and would perhaps fairly able to be called the blind leading the blind. 😉
The act of Hope of a human can be of two differing forms… hope that becomes reality and hope that (in all likelihood) never will.
The hope of wining in a form of gambling for example is able to be supported by logical probability. The odds of winning a toss of a coin are one in two so i can have a resonable hope of winning roughly this often if i play a large number of games. The chance of me winning in one game is fifty fifty. there is a one in four chance i will only lose (never win) in two such games and a one in eight chance i will only lose in three games etc.
The hope of winning in a lottery is still able to be based upon the fact that one person (or more) can and will win in most games and that that one person could well be me, as i hope, but the facts are i have less than a one in eight million games played chance of winning any weekly lottery in my home town. Such Hope is ‘small’ but a real one none the less. ( i have one probability of having a winning game in roughly 160 thousand years in this lottery no-one can state with any accuracy which game i play (the first? the last?) in this time will be the one that probability has determined will be the one that wins)! I Hope that it will be one in my lifetime if i ever play such a lottery. Probability says this is possible – but rather unlikely. 🙂
Then there is the other kind of hope… where there is no guarantee – or even likelyhood that the Hope will become a reality in one’s lifetime, or ever.
Like say the hope that aliens will land on earth (although to some this is able to be ‘debated’ as they claim evidence exists that such an event has already happened but is being kept a secret for our own ‘safety’ – to avoid a mass panic).
Or say, the Hope that i can fly by jumping off The Golden Gate Bridge at dawn on Easter Sunday?
Before the last half of the last century Science and reason believed it was able to make quite definite statements concerning our Reality and was therefore able to state with certainty on what kind of hope was which – supportable (predictable – real ) or unsupportable (not able to be shown to be a ‘real’ hope, however small).
That changed a great deal with the understanding of the Quantum world which forms the basis of the one we all live in.
Our ‘world’ is in fact built upon a very strange ‘shifting sand’ of unpredictability – a foundation where all kinds of previously unsuspected probabilities are able to be shown to be true – real – even those that sometimes seem quite impossible for us to believe in or have supportable hope for.
It is for this reason, in part, that i no longer give my undying allegiance to Science and the ‘real, provable’ world and let my Faith and Hope take on wider forms of being and truth.
I am now far more prepared to acknowledge my limited intelligence is likely to be part of a far greater ‘whole’ and there is more to ‘reality’ than i used to limit my understandings to. This gives me considerable freedom to increase my personal reality into areas some find impossible for them to consider as being in any way ‘supportable’ as they cannot show or prove them to be ‘true’ – neither however are they able to prove them in any way false, other than to those who share their limitations of thought.
i think science has shown us quite clearly many times in the past that we do indeed err if we state that what we cannot yet prove does not actually exist.
Hope is one of the things that helps alter and increase the reality of what is and is not ‘possible’ to a single entity.
Faith is the source of the energy that sustains our Hope.
I see Faith as supporting our Hope – not the other way around 🙂
Thank you for allowing me to reconsider my thoughts on these matters – i’m very glad we can have these discussions 😀
<B
April 21, 2009 at 3:42 pm
edfromct
“I am now far more prepared to acknowledge my limited intelligence is likely to be part of a far greater ‘whole’ and there is more to ‘reality’ than i used to limit my understandings to.”
You have, or are trying to develope, the kind of “open mind” that we all need to strave for.
I agree mankind’s collective intelligence is now limited to the universes we live in. We have a long way to go to even understanding that universe to any significant degree.
My hope is that human intelligence is capable of evolving to the point where we will maximize our resources and adopt to any environment we encounter.
There is sufficient evidence to convince me that the human brain is evolving. This supports my faith that we humans “can” adopt to any change, not that we necessarily will.
It is also my hope that as our brains evolve we will evolve societies where people live in peace and harmony. Again I have faith this could happen, not that it necesarily will.
I have personal faith in myself supported by the fact that I have overcome all the trials I have encounter so far in life. I recognize the day will come when I won’t.
This is sufficent faith for me to face tomorrow. To look forward to each new day.
Your faith extends to life after death, which mine does not. I agree my faith is more limited in this regard than yours.
I can hope that some other form of reality exist. I don’t have, and don’t need, faith that it does.
April 21, 2009 at 11:37 pm
lovewillbringustogether
i think i understand your Faith – i largely had something like it for what has been the greatest portion of my life so far ( this time ’round) 😉
I believe the cells that combine to make up my body and thoughts will die shortly after ‘i’ do (unless i can learn how to ‘save’ the ‘i’, separate from my body, within the next 50 years or so)
However i KNOW the atoms and some of the molecules that combine to make up the cells that make up ‘me’ will live on and on long after i am gone.
I do not believe that what makes up my consciousness is significantly different to this – The actual combination of ‘me’ might die but what it is comprised of will return into the greater ‘pool’ of life (in this case mental and/or spiritual ‘life’) that we are all constantly in connection of some sort with.
Most of us confuse what exactly ‘life’ actually is. There is much more to it than most of us spend any time considering. 😉
<B
April 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm
edfromct
Scholars have been debating the exact meaning of “consciousness”, and how to define “life” since these words were invented. 🙂
I agree there may be, and hope there is, some form of consciousness beyond that which comes from the combination of atoms and molecules that make up our brain.
I am prepared to change what I base my faith on, but I would need some form of adequate validation before I do.
April 22, 2009 at 10:56 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Well, as much as i might love the thought – it is not up to me to provide it 😉
i rather think the expression ‘Leap of Faith’ comes into this ‘equation’ 🙂
Dare we step of the solid cliff of our ‘certainty’ into the ‘thin air’ of our Faith?? 🙂 If we do find the courage to try do we find we crash to earth and suffer death – or are lifted up by that thin air and fly and soar like an Eagle with a freedom our earthbound feet had never known?
For some it is enough to remain on earth and watch others ‘soar’
We will only truly know what is best for us if we experience both the ground and the air for ourself and not just rely on the stories of others.
Have you any ‘evidence’ at all ( in your personal experience and the combined wisdom of your (our) race’s ancestral history) that allows you to ‘Build up your Faith’ in some way?
There seems to be many, many cases in history of humans who have found that by putting their faith into their Faith, it is built up into something greater than before?
We will only truly know what is best for us if we experience both the ground and the air for ourself and not just rely on the stories of others.
To me that was at the core of Jesus’s teachings – Don’t do as i say, do as i do and find Truth for one’s self.
Make sure though that you have the best information concerning all that is around you as you do so – don’t make your own prison by choosing to close your mind to only what you believe is presently ‘possible’… leave room for your own continuing ‘growth’ – in all areas, not just what this world has to offer us.
it may well turn out to be that this world IS all there is (and God does not then exist)…. but if we limit ourselves to such a belief it becomes true whether it actually is – or not.
By opening ourselves up to such possibilities the reality expands.
Do we live in a Closed – or an ‘Open’ Universe??? Science has yet to determine this…?
The solution may indeed be in each one of us? 😉
<B
April 23, 2009 at 2:04 am
edfromct
I think we are running out of space in this thread so I will answer in a new one.
April 17, 2009 at 10:20 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Ahhhh…that was meant to be ‘in SOMETHING greater’ not ‘is something…’
a significant difference in meaning caused by one little letter being ‘wrong’.
Yet another reason why so many ‘versions’ of bibles/christianity leads to us all not knowing Him like we should.
I have said in other places that we have many differences in Christianity/Religion because we humans have many different ways of being human and one way does not ‘fit’ all…
However when two ways differ to the point of non-agreement/violent DIScord then both need to pull their heads in and find the RIGHT way to come back into ACcord through personal humility, because one or probably both of them has something misunderstood and/or just plain WRONG. This is especially important when one person or elite group starts telling others the ‘right’ interpretations of translated words out of their original context.
Where’s my Pulpit?? 😉
<B
April 19, 2009 at 6:27 pm
edfromct
I will trade you a pulpit for a soap box. 🙂
“However when two ways differ to the point of non-agreement/violent DIScord then both need to pull their heads in and find the RIGHT way to come back into ACcord through personal humility”
That is the perfect formula for world peace. Now all we have to do is get the other 6 billion people on the plant to live like this.
April 20, 2009 at 3:02 am
lovewillbringustogether
You start from your end and i’ll start from mine and we’ll meet somewhere about Israel 😉
<B
April 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm
tam
“People will have differences in their interpration of what some parts of the Gospel mean. Any discussion of these differences, exchange of ideas, needs to be done in an atmosphere of love.”
im just trying to read through the comments here…but im afraid i dont have THAT much time 😯 although i wanted to say, in reference to the quote above….YES and AMEN and I AGREE 🙂
this is why you can have this study on your blog…which i absolutely love and have learned so much from you, Ed, as i have read your posts and replies to others weekly. thank you for this, friend…
April 21, 2009 at 9:38 pm
edfromct
Thank you Tam for inspiring me to make my contribution to our blogging community.
We need to continue to keep expanding our circle of friendship, which one day will hopefully encompass the world.
April 23, 2009 at 2:27 am
edfromct
Love, “Have you any ‘evidence’ at all ( in your personal experience and the combined wisdom of your (our) race’s ancestral history) that allows you to ‘Build up your Faith’ in some way?”
I don’t have much “faith” in observations made by past generations. The observations of others can make me hopeful, but I don’t base my faith on hope alone. I need some form of personal validation.
The great thing about a science based(?) approach to life is that it must start with the idea that anything is possible. God could exist. I need to keep my mind open to this, and all, possibilities.
April 23, 2009 at 3:28 am
lovewillbringustogether
“The great thing about a science based(?) approach to life is that it must start with the idea that anything is possible. God could exist. I need to keep my mind open to this, and all, possibilities.”
I’d like to agree with your first thought there, and once i might have held a similar ‘belief’.
The Truth though is that only a hypothesis is supposed to start with the ‘belief’ that ‘anything’ is possible and by postulating a Hypothesis and then designing an experiment we may disprove the hypothesis (and so be left with nothing ‘new’ or proven – only that our hypothesis and/or experiment was wrong) – or establish that the hypothesis MIGHT be true (until disproven otherwise – ie Flat earth , impossible to split an atom, Newtonian mechanics applying everywhere through space, nothing travels faster than light, etc)
Science, which is partly made up of a collection of hypotheses and their related experiments, however needs some initial constraints for it to ‘work’
Some preconceved axiomatic principles and strategies with their own sets of ‘conditions that all need to be met and agreed to – without any underlying ‘proof’. Scientists are just as big a bunch of ‘take it on Faith’ phonies as the elite of religions, the difference being Science is not as up front about it and tries hard to say it’s First Principles ‘Laws’ and Axioms are somehow ‘valid’ ( or more valid than those of religion) while the First Principles, laws and axioms of religions are ‘made up’and hold less of value to describing ‘reality’?
The ‘whole’ of science might say it has ‘consensus’ and operates under logical and consistent Principles, while there are so many differing, and even apparently ‘contradictory’ Principles, to the world’s religions, and even within some religions themselves. This does nothing to alter the often overlooked fact that Science has no way of proving it’s Principles are ‘True’ and contain a truly ‘impartial’ set of conditions such that ‘anything’ is able to be ‘proven’ or disproven right from the ‘beginning’.
It is this that has in part caused me to have less Prime respect for Science that i once had than i now do for the possibilities allowed me through a faith in ‘God’.
Science may have it’s place and logic can be an extremely useful and valuable tool but there are many places in life where these just break down and the borders of what is real and what is not get very ‘fuzzy’ indeed.
Having another vantage point/perspective to view things from can sometimes help make things make more sense.
My goal is to seek to try to bring Science and Religion ‘together’ in each one of us rather than force them ‘apart’.
<B
April 23, 2009 at 5:59 pm
edfromct
“Science, which is partly made up of a collection of hypotheses and their related experiments, however needs some initial constraints for it to ‘work’”
Some quotes from one of my favorite scientest, physicist Richard Feyman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman .
“I believe that a scientist looking at non-scientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.”
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.”
Most importantly:
“We are at the very beginning of time for the human race. It is not unresonable that we grapple with problems. But there are tens of thousands of years in the future. Our responsibility is to do what we can, learn, improve the solutions, and pass them on.”
The only constraint I see in the process of science is that if you want other people to accept your idea it must pass the process of critical peer review.
There are no constraints on what a person can choose to study, and develop theories about, other that their own imagination.