I did a Google search for Bible passages that deal with forgiveness. I have always had a problem with forgiving people. I can get to the point where I understand their actions. I don’t dwell on the past. However actual forgiveness is something I have a hard time with.
I found the following verses which I need help in understanding:
Luke 12: 8-10
8“I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. 9But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
A person who speaks against “the Son of God”, Jesus, will (can?) be forgiven. That is clear.
“anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven”.
What is the difference between speaking against Jesus and blaspheming(?) against the Holy Spirit?
I was my understanding that if a person was truly repentant God would forgive them of anything.
The World Through My Eyes 
24 comments
Comments feed for this article
April 30, 2009 at 5:15 am
darla
i don’t know the answer to that. I have asked that question too before, interested to see what kind of answers you get. love visiting you Ed! (my man is in your area working the last couple days..made me wonder how you are doing?)
April 30, 2009 at 5:03 pm
edfromct
Hi Darla. I haven’t read of anyone who claims a complete understanding of the Bible. I guess you will still have many unanswered question up to the day you hopefully move on to join your God in Heaven. The important thing is to keep seeking a better understanding.
April 30, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Rain
Ooh, this is one that there have been many discussions about. Could be just one of those scriptures that we may not fully understand on earth. I’ve had friends who were very worried that they may have blasphemed the Holy Spirt in a moment of anger or before they became christians. I don’t know the answer either (like darla) but I don’t believe that God is ‘out to get us’ so I really believe that if you consciously and willfully blaspheme the Holy Spirit then Bible is true in what it says. Of course that leaves the question of what if an unbeliever who perhaps consciously and willfully blasphemes the Holy Spirit, but then later becomes a believer, is there forgiveness? I don’t know, but my firm belief again is that God is for us and extends mercy and grace to us because He loves us. Perhaps it is also just a warning… Don’t know Ed:)
April 30, 2009 at 5:41 pm
edfromct
I guess I picked a passage we all have questions about. Given the number of books, and verse, in the Bible this should not be too surprising.
I can’t bring a believers perspective to this discussion, only my own brand of logic.
If it were true that there was an act, so offensive to God, that it eliminated the possibility you could ever join him in Heaven, that would, to me, remove the primary incentive for anyone to convert to religious faith.
Even though I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus I do see him as a good role model. If we all lived our lives as he did there would be more peace and harmony in the world.
Harder question – Is faith in God, without the reward of heaven, enough to sustain following his guidance?
April 30, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Rain
And regarding forgiveness. It is difficult. I would go as far as to say where one was truly harmed by another, forgiveness is humanly impossible. I think it is just contradictory to our human nature, we want to hurt the other as much as we have been hurt, we want them to pay and suffer… It’s human. That why I think true forgiveness is only possible where God, through the Holy Spirit works in our heart and minds. And even then it is a process, a daily choice to forgive and surrender to God, to not think those vengeful thoughts.
April 30, 2009 at 5:52 pm
edfromct
I agree that it is human nature to not forgive someone who has committed a heinous act against. It is better if we should shift our focus away from hateful feelings. Focusing on God, and his merciful nature(?), can do this, and would be healthier for us.
My approach is that even though I am incapable of forgiving the person who harmed me, I recognized that maintaining hate only hurts me. Your approach, working through you hate by focusing on God, may work better.
April 30, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Indian Lake Papa
Ed, it is not ‘doom & gloom’ as much as it sounds. If a person rejects Christ and also the ‘nudgings’ of the Holy Spirit – you have to remember one thing – the desire to repent and conviction of sin is done by the Holy Spirit prior to salvation. Without the nudgings of the Holy Spirit, you basically have no desire to repent. You can’t be forgiven, if you don’t repent/confess. If you have a desire to find Christ, and a desire to repent, then the Holy Spirit is urging you. If you tell him to “back off’ – he will.
Thats a start – don’t ask me any tough question! LOL maybe some experts will come along and we can work on this. 😀
April 30, 2009 at 5:55 pm
edfromct
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Papa.
So far it looks like we are all searching for an expert who can make us understand this passage.
As Rain said, maybe there is only one who can, God. 🙂
April 30, 2009 at 7:54 pm
ric booth
Hey Ed. Long time. I didn’t know you had a bible study. Cool.
I read this passage as yet another warning to the Pharisees. I think it is safe to say Jesus is trying to shock them (and us) awake with his strong words. Rejecting Jesus is something everyone has experience with. As a believer, I know I rejected Christ most of my life. Jesus says I am forgiven.
Now however, if I who having received the truth of Jesus Christ turn around and reject what I now know to be true and I, like the Pharisees mentioned by Jesus in Luke 12:1, withhold that truth and instead intentionally lie to those seeking God… that would be bad, agreed?
Jesus, and everyone else for that matter, calls this practice hypocrisy. And the worst kind he calls blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. It would be like a doctor withholding treatment and letting the patient die but collecting all the bills regardless. All the while he’s leading his patients to believe and trust him even though he is knowingly letting them die. Not very nice.
I could go on…and on … and on….
April 30, 2009 at 9:03 pm
edfromct
Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Rejection and hypocrisy are two things I have had more experience with then I care for.
I understand what you say about Luke 12 being a warning about hypocrisy, and cowardice, in preaching the gospel.
I am still not clear on why is speaking against Jesus is forgivable, but doing so against the Holy Spirit not? If in fact that is a correct interpration of this verse.
Luke 12:10 seems to go against the idea that if you are truly repentant any sin can be forgiven.
May 1, 2009 at 2:37 am
lovewillbringustogether
Brother Ric! 🙂
maybe you should go on – and on? You make lots of sense!
That’s in short supply these days 🙂
<B
May 1, 2009 at 2:36 am
lovewillbringustogether
Apologies for my tardiness.
Do we not understand that there are TWO worlds?
WE live very much in the world of matter and there are many who believe that is all there ever is – all that can be proven or relied upon as real.
While at the very same time the thoughts they think about such are impossible to define or understand or be recreated by Man outside of his own being.
There is at least ONE ‘world’ that exists independently, yet at the same time in connection to this material world.
Ed – care is needed in reading Scripture it is very precise (or Man has tried very hard to make it so, so that it represents the True Word).
It is not the Son of God that Jesus mentions in this passage but the Son of man. The Son of man is Human – as are we and lives in and came from this world (in part – Mary’s son)
Any who blaspheme against the Son of Man may be forgiven their sin/blasphemy (see also Matt 12:31 and Mark 3:28) for to do so is to sin against a man who is as ourself – the ‘Old man’.
But if we accept the Holy Spirit within us fully, and live from that – and THEN sin against The Holy Spirit of God, that can live within us, not the earthly man, that we were before putting on the New man (of Spirit) – that sin is unforgivable – The Angel Lucifer is one who has done such (moved against God from Spirit) and is forever damned by God as a result.
It is because God declares there are TWO worlds – Above and below – that we may have some (limited) access to either as we live here, that there are two forms of sin and forgiveness for them.
If someone who has not accepted within them – and lives from within it all the time – the Personal gift of the Holy Ghost that Christ promised He would send to us who believe in Him, but lives from their own earthly self we do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but if we are IN Spirit and then blaspheme it or Him we may be subject to eternal damnation.
At least that’s how it makes the most sense to me. 😉
Concerning the Truly repentant (Repentant = metanoia (Greek) meaning changing of one’s mind (from one ruled by this world to one ruled by that of Spirit). If we have truly changed our minds over to the Spiritual ‘mind’ we should never choose to go against the Word of God whereas a (previous) sin against the world or it’s inhabitant could be forgiven.
The earlier part of your Quote’s Chapter also has these verses: (1-3)
‘1 … Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. ‘
There is no hiding in the darkness of this world, what is to be revealed in the Light of the One Above.
<B
May 1, 2009 at 3:13 am
edfromct
“It is not the Son of God that Jesus mentions in this passage but the Son of man.”
Good grief. Love, you were the first one to point out my error. The others were probably too polite. 🙂
Amazing how I passed my Bible study class. The Priest must have been desperate for converts. 🙂
“But if we accept the Holy Spirit within us fully, and live from that – and THEN sin against The Holy Spirit of God, that can live within us, not the earthly man, that we were before putting on the New man (of Spirit) – that sin is unforgivable – The Angel Lucifer is one who has done such (moved against God from Spirit) and is forever damned by God as a result.”
Your explanation makes it a little clearer. I can see the difference between committing Blasphemy against a God I don’t believe in as oppose to doing it after I have accepted the Holy Spirit.
Isn’t it still possible to 1) not believe in God. 2) come to accept the Holy Spirit. 3) Get angry at God for some reason and blaspheme against him. 4) Repentant, ask for his forgiveness, and re-comitte our lives to him once again?
I can understand that someone who is in hell already won’t be forgiven. However as long as we are alive on earth isn’t possible that no matter what sin we comitted, if we truely repent God will forgive us?
May 1, 2009 at 12:31 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Ed – first off – Concerning the Son of God part… i forgot in my first comment to mention (as most probably well know already) that, of course, Jesus can be seen as Both, it was merely that here Jesus was careful to refer to Himself as man’s son and limited the topic to that – i believe to make the point i hope others can see, that sinning against man while still having the mind of man is forgiveable – once we become Truly repentant however and change our will of the body for our will that obeys only The Holy Spirit as it ‘rests’ in The Comforter that is brought down to us from Above, rather than in our flesh mind then to go against God while having Him as the primary place of our consciousness and free-will is – in His Eyes, Unforgiveable.
It is a somewhat uncommon thought, but one i am more and more convinced reflects Jesus’ understanding and Message.
As to your questions; As i see it in Scripture (and any who are able to refute it are free to do so) 1,2 and 3 are indeed ‘possible’, but if 3 happens then 4 is not. It is possible to have any sin we commit before we FULLY ‘accept’ (and that does NOT mean simply saying we do, but totally believing in our hearts we do and ‘moving’ out of our first ‘earthly’ mind and literally being born Agian IN His Spirit – and i do not believe that is as ‘simple’ as so many Christians want it to seem – although it need not be difficult if our Faith is True) the Gift of the Holy Spirit within us forgiven.
Once we achieve what Paul would have us do as Christians in more than name only however, Hebrews 6:4-6 makes it rather clear – and is in agreement with Luke 12, Mark 3 and Matthew 12…
‘4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ‘
By accepting The Holy Spirit within, submitting our entire will over to it (thus dying to our body’s will), if we again Sin Against that Spirit – it’s Game Over 😦
Accepting The Holy Spirit – as you can see – means a very great deal indeed and i therefore believe it is not something we can do ‘lightly – or too ‘easily’ – before we fully understand what the consequences are for even a slight ‘slip up’.
I don’t believe God would be so cruel as to allow us to be damned to hell for eternity because we did not understand the ‘fine print’.
Just saying we now have The Spirit within us and trying to live like Christ is not what i believe The Bible – and Jesus- is all about. Those are good starts (not like a thousand lawyers with Swine Flu! 😉 ) – but to me, there is much more to it than just that.
But i don’t think you’ll ever hear that in Church these days?? 😯
And i greatly doubt your Bible Study master would’ve understood me all that much either 😉
But just maybe you are beginning to?
<B
May 1, 2009 at 3:41 pm
edfromct
I guess the key words are “truly repentant” and “fully accepting the Holy Spirit”.
Becoming truly repentant is more than say you are sorry, which you might mean in that momenet. It is how you live your life that demonstrates the degree of your repentance. Christians, and I assume other religions that believe in God, pray to God to guide them to become “truly repentant”.
Being human, as Tam says, means you can be tempted to speak against God when something bad happens. If however you can come to “fully” accept the Holy Spirit, as Paul did(?), and live in total obediance(?) to God’s will, you will not be moved to ever speak against God.
May 2, 2009 at 1:43 am
lovewillbringustogether
That’s pretty much how i see these things Ed. While we are ‘fully human’ we can ask for guidance and will question Him and what appears to our eyes to be what He is sayiing to our bodies/mind down here.
We will sometimes find reason to go against what we think were His wishes – if for no other reason than by being distracted and forgetful when we are focussing too tightly on something ‘other’ – something more of our own making than of His.
BUT, after accepting within ourselves that which is not ‘human’, but of God, and then learning how to live through IT and not the human self all the time… then to turn against God in that condition would be certain ‘death’ – no second (Third) chance.
And we are to be careful even when in that condition – free-will means having the ability to do whatever we wish – even move against God’s Will – He gave us that gift, knowing the potential for disaster to His Creation.
There are many who have done so – The Book of Revelation of St John says upto 1/3 of the Host of Heaven (stars) were drawn down to earth by ‘The Dragon’ (Lucifer/Satan) and were caused to war against Micheal and the Angels of God. (Rev 12: 4-9)
Anything we do while human will be judged by Him. (and all can be forgiven our eternal Soul).
All that we do while human towards living In Him – in His Spirit that was a Gift sent to us through Christ – will be to our benefit, but if we become as he Wishes and then ‘stray’ – well i Hope we never have to find out what happens then 🙂
<B
May 2, 2009 at 3:00 am
edfromct
What you are saying is that because I don’t believe in God I can speak against belief in him, until I come to accept the Holy Spirit, if that ever does happen.
I guess I had better get my licks in now. 🙂
May 4, 2009 at 3:04 am
lovewillbringustogether
Pretty much 😉
it’s sort of like: if you and i were ants – people (God) would not be too offended if ants told each other they did/did not believe in humans.
Of course if humans ever stopped to listen to an ant and understood what they were saying they might do some thing to help make up their minds one way or the other – and not all of it would be good for the ants! 🙂
All in all though – Probably best not to p!$$ off a being that can alter (whats still left of) your life for the worst huh? 😉
If the ant ever learned how to ‘speak’ to Humans (through some personal spirit medium like a mini radio transmitter say) he would probably need to be REALLY careful what he said to them! 🙂
<B
May 5, 2009 at 12:07 am
edfromct
If you think ants are some poor, defenseless, creature you have never dealt with fire ants. 🙂
If the Bible is correct, Genesis 1:26, and God gave man dominion over all the creatures on Earth, he forget to tell all those creatures we are suppose to be their boss. 🙂
May 1, 2009 at 1:32 pm
tam
this may have been said already but if a person is truly repentant they likely will not be blaspheming God.
my .02 cents.
this isnt to say that we, believers, dont get angry, yell at or question God. cuz we do. we’re human. and those times usually come from seasons of distress and hurt. we need to come to Him real and genuine. but to speak AGAINST Him is quite another thing all together.
again…i’ll try to read the other comments to see if this has been hit on.
GREAT question Ed!
have a great weekend!
May 1, 2009 at 3:52 pm
edfromct
You are right Tam, these is a big difference between being angry at God and actually speaking against him
In reading the blogs of my Christian friends I see that they sometimes do question God’s guidance. They is very different from speaking against him.
Perhaps because of our human weakness it will take a lifetime to learn how to “fully” accept the Holy Spirit, even though we have faith in God’s guidance.
Is it possible that even though you never reach that state of fully accepting the Holy Spirit, if you have faith in God’s guidance, and live by, you will pass the “final judgement” and join God in heaven?
May 2, 2009 at 2:18 am
tam
good question, again, ed…
when we choose to believe in God and acknowledge His presence in our lives – the Holy spirit inhabits us. therefor, we accept it. we receive that. it becomes a part of our new creation – our new selves.
i think what i will spend my lifetime trying to fully accept is that i dont know, nor do i have to know, everything. He does. that im clear on. because i believe Him to be the Creator of all things. and i…am not. so…i journey on seeking wisdom and knowledge day to day and trust that when i am ready and primed, He will, like a good and loving father just at the right time (which was hard for me to get used to not ever having a good and loving earthly father) reveal to me what i need to know when i need to and am ready to receive it.
May 2, 2009 at 3:11 am
edfromct
We both agree neither one of us may ever know “everything”, perhaps only a small part of the total equation.
Of course you can have some comfort that, if you are right, and your faith is the true one, God may reveal all to you someday.
I will settle for the mysteries of the world I live in.
If your God does reveal all to you, please ask him if my Mets will ever make the playoffs again. 🙂
May 4, 2009 at 10:24 pm
tam
ha! will do 😉