So far I haven’t selected anything from the Book of Mark.
In Book 4 is a series of parables:
1And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
2And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
verses 2 through 8 is the Parable of the Sower. Verses 10-12 read:
10And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
In verse 11 Jesus is saying that he is/has made the mystery of the kingdom of God know to his disciples. He will/has instructed them in detail himself.
With “those who are without”, the multitude, he is teaching in parables. Is this because if they have to figure out the meaning themselves it will help them get a better understanding?
In verse 12 “lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven”. Isn’t purpose of teaching the multitude so that will be converted, and their sins forgiven, which could happen at anytime?
Why do you think Jesus uses parables in teaching “the multitude”?
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July 2, 2009 at 4:41 am
lovewillbringustogether
i think you have chosen a very important part of the life of Jesus’ purpose here on Earth to the ‘Gentiles’, or those who have not been ‘chosen’ of God, as were the twelve tribes of Israel (of whom many ‘fell away’ from God) in this Chapter Ed!
I think this is where so many people have a ‘poor’ understanding and may be ‘poor’ in Spirit as a result. Blessed are the poor in spirit. (For their sins may be forgiven them) Theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 5:3)
‘Isn’t purpose of teaching the multitude so that will be converted, and their sins forgiven, which could happen at anytime?’
Well ‘in a way’ – yes, however if the ‘conversion’ is so easy why were the 12 Apostles so ’slow’ on the Uptake? i mean… they were WITH THE SON OG GOD!!! for YEARS and YEARS.
He taught them and lived with them constantly – he selected them Personally and yet time and time again in Scripture he is weary of their unknowing, their ‘little’ Faith – they are truly poor in His Spirit. – in Fact the Holy Ghost does not descend upon them until 49 days after his death. His Spirit was NOT in them as they lived and were taught by Him, preached to by the son of God Himself!?
And some Churches and ministers believe just by sharing ‘the word’ not The Word) people are ‘instantly’ converted.
I recently read one blog post who said if someone prayed a prayer (containing verses in John 3) that they were now ’saved’. Even if they had no idea of the Bible or of the life and death of Jesus and still believed in and practiced voodoo – because they said one prayer they were ’saved’??
Some people have a VERY strange understanding of what our spirit and the Gift we have all received through Christ actually is.
To those people they only have the ability to understand a parable or story of the ‘real world’ upon which they might be able to build some understanding of the Spiritual one.
Most of us only ever live in the ‘real, physical world’ and never make more than a token effort to grow in spirit, thinking it can be done by ‘doing good’ and following some of man’s precepts.
Some people even believe that by blowing themselves up with as many other people as possible ‘in the name of God’ that they will find Paradise and live happily for all eternity.
Many people are seriously misguided and have no idea of how to live a ‘Godly’ life.
Jesus ’sowed seeds’ and then left the growing of them up to them and His Father – who rewards us according to what we reap from the seeds we sow.
If we sow in the earth we will harvest of the earth – if we sow in Spirit we can harvest of the Spirit. Some are unable to see the difference.
Jesus also taught that we cast not pearls before swine. Those who are not able initially to receive are not to be offered the most precious ‘works’.
As i said – it took Christ many years of personal attention before the Disciples were considered ready able to receive Him.
Though they said they believed (and would not deny Him as Peter, the most faithful Apostle did before Christ was crucified) He knew they were not ready by reason of their acts and lack of faith they continued to demonstrate.
Many seem to think receiving Christ is but a simple matter and can be done in a second. God does not seem to work that way. – Despite what many preach and can quote Scripture to ‘verify’.
Knowing OF Christ is one thing, few knew Christ more than the 12 which included Judas Escariot. – being IN Him is quite another altogether.
There is GOOD reason for this.
Knowing Of Christ is but the first of a long line of ’steps’ we are to take to be truly worthy of ‘receiving Him and more importantly KEEPING, and not denying, Him.
There is no more ’sacrifice’ to atone for sin if we fall away a second time.
<B
July 2, 2009 at 5:43 am
lovewillbringustogether
(and that is when we ‘fall away’ while IN Spirit. If we are not truly IN Spirit and only commit our ‘human’ sins without being truly IN Christ we get numerous ’second chances’ – fortunately, for as we all experience in this earthly, not spiritual, life – we ‘fall away’ from Him very frequently indeed).
<B
July 2, 2009 at 9:02 pm
edfromct
Thanks for another well thought out comment. Being a product of this fast paced modern society I live in I, too often, look for quick, easy, answers. Say the magic word I will get what I want.
I can see that parables are just stories. They are meant to give us some guidance into how we should behave.
Understanding these stories doesn’t by itself mean we are ready to live by the Holy Spirit. I can understand the meaning of at least some of the stores in the Bible, but I still don’t believe God exist.
Becoming a Christ Follower means learning how to listen to the Holy Spirit within you, not just understanding what the words in the Bible mean.
Of course in mentioning Mathew 5:3 you have confused me again.
“Blessed are the poor in spirit. (For their sins may be forgiven them) Theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 5:3) ”
If “spirit” is means health then I don’t see what someones health has to do with accepting God. If spirit means the Holy Spirit, than how would being “poor in spirit” relate to the degree of your faith? I would think God would want you to be “strong in spirit”.
July 2, 2009 at 11:34 pm
lovewillbringustogether
Sorry ’bout the confusion
i have to admit – i don’t fully understand all the ‘Beatitudes’ of Matt 5 myself just yet ( i live in Hope to one day) 
i’m reading that one as meaning the poor in His Spirit: i think they are considered ‘Blessed’ because a) they HAVE some Spiritual awareness (faith as a grain of mustard seed), and b) because while they are yet ‘poor’ in Spirit they can greatly grow into Him and receive the Kingdom while those who have no awareness of His Spirit within them (consciously) will find it difficult to find the Kingdom in this life.
i agree that God would want us to be strong in Spirit – i am fairly sure that is the purpose of each life being lived here – to make that Spirit ever stronger through ‘trial and error’
He gives us the opportunity to ‘prove’ what is ‘right’ and what leads to rebellion and chaos and suffering. Being ‘told’ is one thing but we learn best through experiencing that which we need to know through ‘contrasting’ good vs bad, light versus dark, positive against negatives.
that is my current ‘interpretation’/reading but it could change if there is information such as the exact translated wording of the original i may be missing.
i DO believe that God ‘exists’, that all that can be is what He is – including you and i. i believe you do have some of His Holy Spirit making up a part of who you truly are inside.
That you may not yet be able to ‘feel’ or consciously live from this aspect of our being is understood – you are not alone in that most definitely.
How we ‘make the connection’ is up to each one of us personally, but i imagine it has to do with our degree of His Qualities within each one of us: Love, Faith, Trust and Truth – not to mention Virtue Patience, knowledge, temperence and those things you quoted from2 Peter.
if we learn to live only in our Virtues and not our human vices i think we are then being True to living IN Christ.
All that remains then is the ‘proof’ (to ourself) of His Existence as the source of those Virtues.
Some of us may get that only after we ‘die’ to the earth?
<B
July 3, 2009 at 1:34 pm
edfromct
I did some research and found the following interesting “lesson” about “The Beatitudes” by John MacArthur, no idea who he is.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2198.htm
I. WHY MUST A CHRISTIAN BE POOR IN SPIRIT?
“A. Humility Leads to a Right Knowledge of Self
In the Beatitudes Christ spoke of a new standard of living. Being poor in spirit is a fundamental characteristic of a Christian. No one will enter Christ’s kingdom on the basis of pride–the doorway into the kingdom is very low and must be crawled through. The sooner we realize we are incapable of attaining the standard Christ calls us to (Matt. 5:48), the closer we are to finding the One who can help us attain that standard. That calls for humility. Jesus was saying, “You can’t be filled until you are empty. You can’t be worthwhile until you realize you are worthless apart from Christ.”
In the church today there is little emphasis on self- emptying. I’ve seen many books on how to be filled with joy and other things, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a book on how to empty yourself of self. Too much of contemporary Christianity feeds on pride. But a person without poverty of spirit fails to understand the grace of God and cannot be a Christian since salvation is by grace through faith. Also, the graces of the Christian life can’t grow without humility.”
“Riches often trip up people. Often a poor person’s circumstances give him a running start in the spiritual realm. His desperate circumstances will often led him to seek a source beyond himself. The self-sufficiency of the rich causes them to be complacent about searching for God. That is why “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (Matt. 19:24). A rich person is likely to trust in his riches while a poor man may own nothing to put his trust in.”
“2. It does refer to spiritual poverty
The word translated “poor” (Gk., ptokos) in Matthew 5:3 speaks of “cowering like a beggar.” In classical Greek the word referred to someone reduced to begging in a dark corner for alms. A beggar would cower because he didn’t want to be seen–he would be too ashamed to allow his identity to be known. Beggars would wear their clothes in such a way as to be unrecognizable and hold out an outstretched hand for alms. The word for “poor” in Matthew 5:3 is the same word used to describe Lazarus the beggar in Luke 16:20.
The Greek word penes was used when talking about a person who was so poor he could barely maintain a living from his wages. But Ptokos refers to a person totally dependent on the gifts of others. Such people were often crippled, blind, or deaf. Because they couldn’t function normally in society, they had to plead for grace and mercy from others. They had no personal resources.
Christ said that those who are beggars in spirit are happy. He wasn’t talking about physical poverty but spiritual poverty. Spiritually man is empty, poor, and helpless. He has no resources that will get him into heaven. He is Spiritually incapable and therefore totally dependent on God’s grace. Happy are those with destitute, cowering spirits–only they know their need! That is a sharp contrast to what the world thinks. The world says, “Happy are the rich, famous, self-sufficient, and proud.”
July 5, 2009 at 5:44 am
lovewillbringustogether
I’ve never heard of This John McArthur either
i CAN see some of the positive aspects of what he is saying and can sort of twist my view just enough so i can actually see what he is saying – even if it feels a bit ‘foreign’ to me i think he may well have valid points.
Emptiying ourself (of all pride for one thing) and of desire for earthly as opposed to heavenly ‘gain’ would be quite a good thing for anyone seeking to improve their ‘religiosity’ i feel.
There isa part of my second Creed on my blog that describes Jesus as God doing this to become human and He was able to then let His Father fill him up completely so that He was ‘without sin’ as a human on earth.
As JM says – just where we can find an instruction manual to teach us how to do that is another question !
Good Research Sir
<B
July 5, 2009 at 11:35 pm
edfromct
I looked up John MacArthur and found his Wikipedia entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._MacArthur
“MacArthur is a conservative Baptist. He is a proponent of expository preaching, is a Calvinist, and didpensationalist (believes that Jews will be saved at the end of the tribulation and that all the covenant promises made to them will be fulfilled).”
I can see his point, at least as well as I can understand it, that those who are “poor in spirit” could mean they were very humbled. You have none of the riches that can mislead them, that feeds the human pride and vanity, of those who may see themselves as “self-sufficent”.
The poor could be thought of as being closer to God, as least within the context of the words in Mark 4.
I think of the song “If I Was a Rich Man” from Fiddler on the roof.
“Dear God, you made many, many poor people.
I realize, of course, that it’s no shame to be poor.
But it’s no great honor either!”
More quotes the movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067093/quotes
Perchik: In this world it is the rich who are the criminals. Someday their wealth will be ours.
Tevye: That would be nice. If they would agree, I would agree.
Tevye: As the good book says, when a poor man eats a chicken, one of them is sick.
Mendel: Where does the book say that?
Tevye: Well, it doesn’t say that exactly, but somewhere there is something about a chicken.
(to God]
Tevye: I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can’t You choose someone else?
July 6, 2009 at 12:50 am
lovewillbringustogether
I don’t believe God makes Promises to us that He does not keep.
But i don’t believe that many Jews today Keep their promises to God and so will not be receiving the rewards of His Chosen People (since they have ‘fallen away’ from the Father’s desire for them) and have not repented and come back to Him.
Few Christians seem to be able to stop themselves falling away either – there are going to be many dis’appointed’ people come the appointed time unless we get it together and fast
As for riches… we should remember that God DOES give great riches to those who follow Him Truly (Job was one example) riches do not of themselves cause us to sin or not truly follow God.
As long as we keep Him in the ‘Top Place’ in our lives and not let the lure and lust for wealth on Earth overtake our desire for Him we can have wealth and God and find heaven without conflict.
But wealth makes it easier for us to ‘forget’ about God’s True Place in our life. The Bible makes the warnings against doing this very clear.
Teyve’s personal biases show quite clearly that it is not just the rich who are incapable of maintaining a True relationship with God – being poor is no guarantee of a heavenly reward.
Being Poor in Spirit is not always equated with being poor in Earthly wealth.
Contrary to Teyve’s philosophic thought – there are a great deal of poor criminals (or sinners?) in this world. Of course, few of them ever do the amount of damage to others that Mr Madoff did.
<B
July 6, 2009 at 7:31 pm
edfromct
I am not sure whether being poor makes it more, or less, likely a person will commit a crime, or if it is more, or less, likely to be lead you to be more spiritual.
A poor person may be motivated to do almost anything to feed their family. A rich person may be motivated to almost anything to hang on to their power. Of course the poor are far more likely to get caught, and convicted. As you say, the crimes of rich are more likely to cause more damage to others, and the world.
My guess is that life will present many temptations, and challenges, to your faith, whether you are rich or poor.
July 7, 2009 at 1:13 am
lovewillbringustogether
i have no doubt and LOTS of evidence to say you are quite right there, Sir
Wasn’t saying the poor are any more or less ‘blamelsess’ than the rich just showing Teyve’s bias was not perfectly ‘true’
<B